Traffic Avoidance

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mr-tom
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Traffic Avoidance

Postby mr-tom » 09 October 2010, 12:33

Hi,

I need some advice.

I find the presence of traffic in my cities very annoying.

I don't want to address it just by finding more efficient ways to move people from A to B.

Instead, I want to get to the root cause - why people move from A to B in the first place.

For some months now, I've been trying to build my cities in such a way that any given block contains not only employment, but also the right number of the right level of residences for that work to be fulfilled. My logic is that if people can live right next to where they work, there is no reason for them to travel in the first place.

Unfortunately, either this doesn't work or I'm doing it very badly. :oops:

So, it would be great to see what ideas you all have - how do you manage traffic in your cities? Is there an optimal way to lay out roads, etc?

Tom.
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Re: Traffic Avoidance

Postby City Builder » 09 October 2010, 16:22

Could be an interesting discussion so I'm tagging along.

My thoughts... Don't the peeps in Cities XL move around a lot in employment?

Also, maybe the traffic you are seeing is the fluff traffic that has no place to really go?
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Re: Traffic Avoidance

Postby mr-tom » 09 October 2010, 17:01

Moving around in employment is an interesting one. It's something I've looked at but have never managed to really answer one way or the other.
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Re: Traffic Avoidance

Postby Winter Dragon » 09 October 2010, 17:43

I believe any time your employment rate goes from 0 jobs available to 1 or more, lots of people switch jobs. But I see no order to it. It's not like people try to find a job closer to them, and no one can move to a new house closer to the new job because every house is occupied the second it's built.

I even tried knocking down the house and building a new one closer, but while my workers were in transit some idiot down the road saw the new vacancy and snapped it up. When I placed the new house my workers then took the job the other guy had which was actually closer to where they originally were!



Edit (typos, sorry.)

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Re: Traffic Avoidance

Postby mr-tom » 09 October 2010, 18:00

In that case, it becomes all about what the most efficient way of managing roads and zones is.

Does anybody have a particularly effective way of handling high traffic? (Other than public transport)
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Re: Traffic Avoidance

Postby Klausio » 10 October 2010, 08:48

mr-tom wrote:In that case, it becomes all about what the most efficient way of managing roads and zones is.

Does anybody have a particularly effective way of handling high traffic? (Other than public transport)



Yes one way roads/small avenue, connecting with big avenue/expressway, that will help a little bit.

1 incoming and 1 outgoing exit from a neighbourhood. This wil also help a little bit

Didnt found any other sollutions
Last edited by Klausio on 10 October 2010, 22:10, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Traffic Avoidance

Postby City Builder » 10 October 2010, 21:17

Ok, I have question(s) about traffic, maybe this is a good place to discuss (ask) it...

1. Is it true that everybody else also finds that much like in every other city builder (modern) ever created that the peeps in CXL are as dense as a sack of hammers (i.e. stupid) when it comes to traffic?

Let me give you an example (real life and Cities XL).

Real life experience... When I need to go to the near town to me, I will not take Highway 111 (it's called Highway 111, but it's actually a road that switches in and out between 2 lanes on each side to 3 lanes on each side, back and forth and is actually a road not a highway or freeway), so I will not take Hwy 111 because of the amount of traffic on it. Instead I will drive an extra 1/2 mile to take Ramon Rd to get into town. Yes, it's an extra mile, or so over all over Hwy 111, but I will be in town about 5 or 7 minutes sooner.

Cities XL experience: I create two small avenues, right next to each other. One of them will always be yellow with the amount of traffic of the peeps trying to get to the industrial area, and the other one will always be green because *nobody* takes the road. All it would require is going over the first avenue to the second one, they are right next to each other to take the avenue that has less traffic. The peeps would be at the industrial center in far less time and not have to contend with all the traffic they do by taking the first avenue.

This leads me to believe that the peeps in CXL are alike to the peeps in any other modern age city building game and are stupid to the point that they will only take whatever is the shortest route (in distance, not time) to their destination.

I think this might severely limit any creative road network building.

I want desperately to be proven wrong so that I can try (keyword: TRY) to build more creative road networks than just straightline roads from points A to point B all the time. But it just seems that it would be for eye candy value only and not really be serving a real purpose in the game if the peeps will only take the shortest route by distance and not how long it would take them to actually get to their destination.

Another game (Tropico 3) also suffers from this, the peeps in T3 will also only take the shortest route by distance and totally avoid taking routes set up for them that bypasses the major traffic and would get them to their destination in a fraction of the time.

Discuss.
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Re: Traffic Avoidance

Postby mr-tom » 10 October 2010, 21:58

I think you're getting to the heart of it.

They won't voluntarily go over the small roads though, so that's a good way of keeping "through traffic" out of neighbourhoods.

My thinking is along similar lines although I wonder whether if the further road was a higher capacity road it might get used more.

I have the feeling that it's not merely shortest, but maybe there's some trade-off between distance and road capacity.

My other thoughts are around residential block design - you don't want people living directly on avenues or bigger (or more to the point, they don't want to), but you need to get them onto those roads as quickly as possible, which inevitably means intersections. If you go high density, then those intersections are going to be either very frequent, or very complicated (i.e. many roads joining less often vs few roads more often).

I've also looked at having a local avenue to "step up" the traffic (i.e. collecting a few intersections' worth of local traffic) before joining it to a bigger road at an occasional intersection.

Don't know whether this made any sense or not.

If this convinces me of one thing, it's that I've yet to find the "sweet spot". :ugeek:
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Re: Traffic Avoidance

Postby TheNextGeneration » 10 October 2010, 22:30

:D I find traffic to be fun and it adds to the realism of city life.

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Re: Traffic Avoidance

Postby City Builder » 10 October 2010, 23:12

TheNextGeneration wrote::D I find traffic to be fun and it adds to the realism of city life

Could you maybe elaborate on how the traffic in CXL adds to the realism of city life, And maybe elaborate on what it is that you find to be fun about the traffic system? I find many things about the traffic simulator to be the opposite of realism but am definitely open to hearing what it is that is realistic and fun as I've likely overlooked something.

I do realize that to properly simulate real life traffic (and thus the drivers of the vehicles) would be near impossible feat to accomplish. Why? Because as humans we all have different ways of thinking, different preferences of how we accomplish the same things. While Person A might take the George Town bridge to get to Point B because he likes to go 65 miles per hour, and believes that doing so will save him 5 minutes, Person B might take the overland expressway and pay 2.00 toll because he thinks that the less traffic on the toll road will not only save him 2 minutes but provide him a more beautiful view on the journey, etc. To try to simulate real people's way of traffic patterning I think is an impossible feat.

However... I do believe it's possible that they can add to the AI so that they think first and think that if I take that road over there that has only 2 cars that pass on it per hour, I will be at my destination in far less time than if I get on the avenue with 60 other cars travelling across it ever hour. Or to take the side streets as Tom mentioned they don't do now.

I do agree with you TNG, that it can be fun to try to manipulate the traffic patterns by building more roads, or adjusting existing roads, but when the game won't use them, then it becomes (as we say in the CityBuilderGames.com forums) a form of 'Funstration' (means, frustrating although it can be fun sometimes) to the player.

I would so love to see a city simulation that actually has smart cars (automata) that takes into account more than the direct distance between points A and B. That to me would add a total new level of traffic realism.

I'm open to listening to other players and what they are finding fun about the traffic simulation, as after reading about 12 pages from the 'Ideas for Cities XL' thread found on this forum, it makes me realize that many people play differently and want different things to make the game more fun to them, so if people have suggestions on what specifically they find fun in the traffic simulator I would love to hear it, maybe I am overlooking something really simple that might be a great joy to use.

In my opinion, the Traffic Simulator (I assume there is a traffic simulator) used in Cities XL should really be high on the priorities list of what to enhance in Cities XL if Focus Home Interactive does any expansions and or more sequels for CXL (i.e. Cities XL: 2011: Traffic Dillemas, or Cities XL 2012 etc.)

At the bare minimum, traffic simulator should understand that both lanes on one side of the avenues are considered going the same direction and should both go at the same time when it's there turn, this is the most realism killing aspect of the simulation to me. Heck, I could probably live with the fact that traffic doesn't use alternative routes that would get the vehicle to their destination in a shorter amount of time, as that's what is lacking in every other City Building (modern) game that I can think of, but having the left lane of the east bound traffic move, and the right lane of the east bound traffic stay at the light is a real 'realism' killer to me. Again, would love to hear other things in the game that make it more fun and more realistic that I am likely just overlooking.


So, TNG, (and anybody else that feels it's fun and adds to the realism of city life in CXL) what is it specifically that you find fun about the traffic AND what do you find about the traffic simulator in CXL 09 that makes the game more realistic to you?

//Oh and my apologies to everybody's eyes. I have been accused by many and do realize that I am far too verbose in my writing at times. I just hardly ever can only put down in one or two sentances what it is that I am thinking. My apologies for any walls of text that I might or already have written.
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